Curse

4thVariety · Jan 25, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

How many subscription MMOs stayed competitive with WoW? None!
How many subscription MMOs have failed since WoW? ALL!

I think publishers should worry more about delivering a game that offers a good and complete gaming experience, before they charge even as much as the retail copy. MMOs seem always unfinished at release, so why buy them at release? Beta Test AND pay is a bit much to ask of the customer. By the time the game might actually be good, gold farmers will have destroyed the economy and five other MMOs start their full advertisement campaign so people forget about older titles. Incentive to buy? None, hell, these day one can hop from one promotional beta to the next!

As far as additional content is concerned, it has nothing to do with making good use of monthly fees. Especially the patch+dungeon iterations of WoW are little more than cleverly planned publicity stunts, so that all sorts of press can report on them. First month patch preview, second month patch review and guide, third month off. Begin again. Very cleverly done.

Players do not get one texture more than was originally planned. The delivery of the package is merely custom fit for the lies they tell themselves to justify monthly fees.

enxa · Jan 25, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

ANet has done much, much more for its game without the subscription than Blizzard has done for WoW with the subscription. Your claim that monthly fees will equal more and better content could be true, but not necessarily. It is more a matter of greed. Blizzard is a VERY greedy company. ANet isnt. At least i dont perceive ANet as being greedy.

Besides that ANet now has lots of expeirience with their current model, i am sure they will be able to manage GW2 just as well.

If there will be a fee for GW2, i will not pay for it. I just dont believe that you NEED a fee to make a good MMO. And GW1 proved me right.

**cosyfiep** · Jan 25, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I dont believe charging a fee would help out with the kind of stress and problems that gw is facing----they would STILL not get things out on time, there would be bugs etc, giving them more money wouldnt solve that. (A better solution is for them to get a more realistic time line for completing things, not the 'we gotta get something out this month' thing, it isnt working for gw1 and it wont work for gw2 either).
To make more money they need to not only keep those playing interested in the game but also pull new people in....they have worked on this by offering new chapters. They try to hold onto the player base with events and special weekends and such....they need to do more of this. Keeping the game fun, keeping people wanting to play and getting more people into the game is how to make money. Getting new ideas into the current game (which they tried to do with titles

), and making people want to play again (HM?) is what keeps people, however; they need to try even harder ....with the coming of gw2 they have already lost many people who just dont want to keep playing when they know something 'better' is coming along....releasing that was a bad business decision on their part especially at the time they were releasing eye. Not sure whose dumb idea that was, but they werent thinking, in my opinion, and that hurt sales. They should have released eye and then waited about 3 months and then said they were going on to gw2---they would have gotten more people interested then....people who had given up would have said 'hey a new gw in a year or so, great, and this eye expansion has some things they may carry over into it? well then I should get it' (or glad I got it, now I need to fill up that HoM).
Whatever.
Gw2 will not have a fee, there will be bugs, and they will rush their time tables to get things out 'on time'. Its what they have done in the past, and I dont see the horse changing it colors anytime soon.

ReiNaruto · Jan 25, 2008, 11:03 AM // 11:03

The monthly fee is a key point for me. I may love a game, but I'm not going to pay another bill for it every month, sorry.

strcpy · Jan 25, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The problem with that statement - Wow has shown that players have no problem in paying a monthly fee... for Wow.

I would say not only that, but for those that *are* willing to pay a monthly fee WoW has won, it has won so strongly that it will be some time before someone can really compete with them. Not only in a real sense but also in a perception sense - any game seeking to be a WoW killer is going to need such a phenomenal start out of the gate that it makes it nearly impossible to do, I just don't think GW2 is coming out in the time frame where they can meet any hype necessary to beat WoW if that was their focus.

GW has it's niche and by any past metric of success (that is, compared to any other game but WoW) it is an unmitigated success. A large part of that success is "no monthly fees", especially given the amount of their players that tend towards a "casual" game play (at least when compared to the massive hours many put into other MMO's).

Yes, it's staggering what their monthly income is - but then that is also why I don't think I could ever find myself feeling like I got my money's worth there. 15 dollars/person/month with 10 million people (their most recent announced number) is 150 *million* a month - that better be one hell of a game and not depend on the freaking players to provide actual content outside of grinding (which it doesn't). There are entire countries out there with a lower GDP than what Blizzard is making and all we get is the same group of critters to kill over and over - this is why it always amazes me the people who complain that Anet didn't give them enough for their purchase so they are going back to WoW.

JeniM · Jan 25, 2008, 11:09 AM // 11:09

I get £300 per 3-4months to live on at uni from student loans.
I get £30-40 a week or 2 from my job.
I do volunteer work to when not doing uni work or work work so if GW2 was pay2play then i'd either have to get a 3rd job and have no time to play the game i'm paying for or drop my volunteer work wich i really don't want to do as its about the only thing i do thats spiritually rewarding.

In other words if GW2 went to pay2play i'd not buy it

Sub Frost · Jan 25, 2008, 11:13 AM // 11:13

If you think they would make more money by changing to a monthly fee, u really haven't been playing the same game has me.

Chrono Re delle Ere · Jan 25, 2008, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Lol I would quit for sure, although I play from 2 years. I guess that many wow player also buyed GW , because they were interested in it. No fee, just buy the game and have fun: ok I can play 2 mmos then!

They sell much more game account than wow, but wow has got the fee that makes them have the same/more amount of cash than gw.

Alex the Great · Jan 25, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21

mini expansions would be great, no new skills, but new areas and weapon skins 5-10 dollars each

i would not pay a monthly fee ever

MithranArkanere · Jan 25, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Easy. A server can be set an maintained with a small fee for a long time. And the requisites of a game do not increase over much compared to the decrease of the costs of servers and the price of the same connection bandwidth.

Diablo II is atill running, just with some scraps paid with other Blizzard products.

This would be mostly the same.

You get more money for the next sell, and it pays the previous content online.

Wildi · Jan 25, 2008, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

.. I play only 1 MMO at a time, and monthly fees are not threatening or the deciding factor to me..

monthly fees are the biggest deciding factor

trialist · Jan 25, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

What's with this mentality that just because you pay for something, that it would automatically be good?

Let me clue you in on a fact, nothing beats free, NOTHING. A prime example that i like to quote is a MMORTS known as Shattered Galaxy, some of you may have heard or played it, but i won't be surprised if many didn't.

Now that was a game that due to its ridiculously long beta test period (during which time players had full access almost as if playing a free game), gathered a player base that were hooked on being able to play for free. So much so that when the game went commercial and a fee was required to play, the game pretty much died overnight.

A huge portion and i do mean huge, more than 70% (probably being modest here) of the original beta test player base, simply dropped the game and refused to pay for it, having been able to play it for such a ridiculously long time for free (it was more than a year if i recall correctly). What looked to be a soon to be commercial success based on the huge beta player base turned into a nightmare for the devs when their player base all but disappeared. The game struggled along but it never really reached the same player base it had during its beta days and it was forced to implement a free play playerbase, basically players whose stats are restricted and are cannon fodder for the paying players to beat on, since the game was entirely pvp and the paying players had no one to pvp with.

The moral of the story? Nothing beats free. Guild wars would die overnight too if it implemented a pay to play scheme since it has attracted pretty much the same crowd.

Amon Warrior · Jan 25, 2008, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

We already have the online shop ingame.
Can you not imagine that it will be expanded to accept more payment options and sell more merchandise, optional content like the BMP, horse armor, special items? Basically GW becoming more of a micro-payment game?
What do you think?

Yes, definitely.

Guild Wars already attracts gamers that appreciate no monthly fees (characters not being erased when payment fails) thus not wasting money. Let's not ruin that.

But it also has the potential to grab those who are willing to pay for, let's say, game add-ons that could be purchased as an option, allowing a greater entertainment with a certain degree of coolness and usefulness; while not affecting combat, skills and strategy.

You want...?

- in-game email
- more storage space
- new areas to explore
- set up a store
- change character's name / appearance
- mod tools for your Guild Hall (appearance, night/day cycle, dungeons)
- a Player's own instanced and upgradable estate (acquired from a large-scale quest)
- unlock cool items

Pay for it...

Turtle222 · Jan 25, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

i am in no means in financial hardship...i can easily afford a monthly fee. But, paying for a fee just means that i have to change my lifestyle to fit in an hour or so a day...Paying a fee means you have to make a commitment to the game...and if it causes my life to be altered by it in any way, i stop playing the game...thus fees are crap.

Yang Whirlwind · Jan 25, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

I play only 1 MMO at a time, and monthly fees are not threatening or the deciding factor to me. Sure, there will be players who cannot afford that or just like the idea to pay no fee.

But will they make up for one subscription in the short or long run? Guild Wars seems to be running very well, despite no fees. But could they not make MUCH more money with the traditional model?

Probably they could make more money with the monthly fee model!
I have no finacial issue with the model,- for me it's more a principle: I pay for a product - I get the product!
I never lease or buy by instalment payments - cash only!

Not sure how I would react if they actually changed religion on this: I'm hooked and looking forward to GWII, but I'm not sure I would violate my principle to keep playing!

Red Sonya · Jan 25, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

If GW charged a monthly fee 3/4's of it's population would vanish if not more. The major draw of it was no monthly fee and an online world like the others without having to pay one. It has no levels to speak of and no loot to speak of and that $15 a month would look pretty wasted pretty quick if it was implemented. Too many silly people think GW would flourish if it had a monthly fee, but, bottom line it would fall to the floor if they charged $15 or any monthly fee to play it. I wouldn't pay $5 a month to play it because Diablo 2, Oblivion, Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 would offer the same for less (no fees).

Hopefully GW2 will add more stuff and lots higher levels and phat loots to make it last a lifetime. Thas all we need is a no monthly fee mmorpg like WOW/EQ/DAOC and the others. Hopefully if GWEN is any indication of GW2 then it's going to be better and more fun that way.

Bryant Again · Jan 25, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

The Guild Wars business model is really no different than an off-line game with expansion packs. The only difference is that GW can only be played online.

Kyp Jade · Jan 25, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

the handling of the GW servers itself greatly reduces the cost of running it. Instances and districts help keep server load down by a LOT.

Not only that, but I also suspect that Anet liscenses technologies they develop for GW to other companies within NCsoft and make money that way. But I could be wrong here.

Cacheelma · Jan 25, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The Guild Wars business model is really no different than an off-line game with expansion packs. The only difference is that GW can only be played online.

Please don't state the obvious truth here. It shines so bright it hurts my eyes as I'm not blind nor having a pair of shades with me.

I agree, though. And I can't see why some people try to make it sound as if Anet is doing us some kind of favor by letting us play without the monthly-fee OR keeping the game up-to-date (which most good game companies do with their games, online or not, all the time if needed anyway).

Maybe I'm blind after all?

Ebony Shadowheart · Jan 25, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

As much as I love GW, if they had a monthly fee I simply wouldn't be able to play. I wouldn't be able to afford it. For those with multiple accounts, they'd have multiple monthly fees. My boyfriend and I have 4 account between the 2 of us. At say $15/month per account = 60$ a month plus whatever add ons we buy? No thank you.

Even if money wasn't a factor, I wouldn't play a game that I would have to commit that strongly too. Having to be on to make the money worth while and worrying about having my account removed if I miss a payment. That's that much more stress that I don't need. I (we) would simply stop playing and I know a few in my guild that would as well. Mommy and Daddy wouldn't pay for their monthly fees, lol.